Medieval "lingerie"

[mandie_rw]

Saw this floating around Facebook - what do you guys think of it?

Discovered in a castle vault, the scraps of lace that show lingerie was all the rage 500 years ago

My knowledge of pre-16thc clothing is sketchy at best, but after a good look, I think saying the find "totally rewrites" fashion history is a bit of a stretch. A fascinating find? Yes, definitely. But it hasn't totally blown my mind and made me question everything I know about the history of women's undergarments!

Of course, it is the Daily Mail...

Comments

[mandie-rw.livejournal.com]

I dunno - to me (again, very sketchy pre16thc knowledge here!) the "bras" just prove that someone, possibly more than one someone, wore support garments in Lengberg Castle in 1480. I didn't realize support garments were so highly contested! Very cool to have found them, of course - I had noticed a trend toward "No medieval woman EVER wore support garments OMG!1!!", and that shuts those people up. xD

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

There is one 15th c medical journal (letter?) that advised women who were well endowed to cut pockets into their shift to support their "large tracts of land". I can't recall who wrote it, only that it had been the only evidence for some sort of support garment beneath the gown. Most people believed that the dress itself was cut to support the bust - which this would go against a bit.

And yes, there are a lot of people who don't believe that women wore underwear - even during that time of the month. There is a ton of articles on how they just bled into their gowns (seriously) and it wasn't a big deal to have a bloodied chemise. It's why they wore dark colored skirts and gowns, according to these interesting individuals.

Despite paintings showing women in underwear (uh, I see d cups there...) that look like modern underwear, there are still people that refuse to believe. Partly because of letters from the time (I recall one person telling me that this ambassador to Spain wouldn't have said that when a royal lady fell off her horse and her skirts went up over her head that he could see "all that heaven endowed her with" or something akin to that if she was wearing underwear. Apparently this person I was arguing with at the time didn't think just seeing legs was shocking. *facepalm*

So yes, very contested. I'm so glad this has come out and with pictures! The original archeological report is in German so...I can't read it. I've been wanting the English translation. Yes, this might be the daily mail but the report and find are both very real and very well documented in archeological research using known methodology.

[heidilea.livejournal.com]

I hate hate HATE it when I see the "bled into their gowns" theories. It makes no sense. Wouldn't the excess show up on extant gowns? And why would you risk ruining expensive fabrics?

[isabelladangelo.livejournal.com]

http://www.netherton.net/robin/FittedDressFAQ.pdf
Scroll down to "What kind of undergarments where worn with this?" to find out exactly how contentious the whole "there were no bras!" thing is. A lot of people are now changing their pages to include the find so you can't see the older stuff anymore...